#118311: "Major ambiguity with ${tkn_playerName} leading to many grammatical problems "
О чём этот отчёт?
Что произошло? Пожалуйста, выберите из нижеследующего
Что произошло? Пожалуйста, выберите из нижеследующего
Пожалуйста, проверьте, существует ли уже отчёт на ту же тему
Если это так, ПРОГОЛОСУЙТЕ за этот отчёт. Отчёты с наибольшим количеством голосов будут рассматриваться В ПЕРВУЮ ОЧЕРЕДЬ!
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Подробное описание
• Пожалуйста, скопируйте текст ошибки, которую вы видите на экране (если она есть).
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Пожалуйста, объясните, что вы хотели сделать, что вы сделали и что случилось
see above• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
• Пожалуйста, скопируйте/вставьте текст, который отображается на английском языке, вместо вашего. Если у вас есть снимок экрана с этой ошибкой (хорошая привычка), вы можете воспользоваться Imgur.com, чтобы загрузить его и вставить сюда ссылку.
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Доступен ли этот текст в системе перевода? Если да, был ли он переведён более 24 часов назад?
see above• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
• Пожалуйста, точно и кратко опишите своё предложение, чтобы сделать его наиболее доступным для понимания.
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
• Что было изображено на экране, когда вас заблокировало? (Пустой экран? Часть игрового стола? Сообщение об ошибке?)
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
• Какая часть правил не соблюдена в версии БГА
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Видно ли нарушение правил в повторе игры? Если да, то на каком ходу?
see above• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
• Какое игровое действие вы хотели совершить?
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Что вы пытались сделать, чтобы выполнить это игровое действие?
see above• Что произошло, когда вы попробовали сделать это (сообщение об ошибке, сообщение в строке состояния игры...)?
• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
• На каком шаге игры произошла проблема (какой была текущая игровая инструкция)?
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Что произошло, когда вы попробовали совершить игровое действие (сообщение об ошибке, сообщение в строке состояния игры...)?
see above• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
• Пожалуйста, опишите ошибку отображения. Если у вас есть снимок экрана с этой ошибкой (хорошая привычка), вы можете воспользоваться Imgur.com, чтобы загрузить его и вставить сюда ссылку.
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
• Пожалуйста, скопируйте/вставьте текст, который отображается на английском языке, вместо вашего. Если у вас есть снимок экрана с этой ошибкой (хорошая привычка), вы можете воспользоваться Imgur.com, чтобы загрузить его и вставить сюда ссылку.
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Доступен ли этот текст в системе перевода? Если да, был ли он переведён более 24 часов назад?
see above• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
• Пожалуйста, точно и кратко опишите своё предложение, чтобы сделать его наиболее доступным для понимания.
${tkn_playerName} may select a location to place ${tkn_mapToken}
When reading this in the traduction center, we assume that ${tkn_playerName} is a third person subject.
It seems however that this particular sentence is only used with a second person subject, ${tkn_playerName} always resumes to "you" for the sentence above.
This is very misleading as "playerName"' should be a player name.
Any text where the subject of a verb can be at the second person or at the 3rd person depending on the context should be split.
Most game have dual sentence like "${you} may...." and "${actplayer}...."
This leads to very very frequent grammatical errors in multiple languages including French.
On the other hand, in the following sentence, ${tkn_playerName} does become a third person subject
${tkn_playerName} may place Agents
This is a mess.
I can almost never tell in the traduction center if the ${tkn_playerName} is second person or 3rd person or can be both (shouldn't be both because the grammatical forms are very different in many languages and you can't reasonably make a traduction that works for both uses)
----------
Take for instance :
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
This has been translated to
${tkn_playerName} doit choisir une concession à taxer
This works fine when it is used for 3rd person:
HighMelting doit choisir une concession à taxer
But this is ugly and incorrect:
Vous doit choisir une concession à taxer
It should be;
Vous devez choisir une concession à taxer
And there is no solution that isn't very ugly:
${tkn_playerName} doit/devez choisir une concession à taxer
Une concession à taxer doit être choisie par ${tkn_playerName}
Trust me, both are ugly and never used .
---------------------------
Now...
We also don't want to redo all the translations....
I think the best way forward is this:
1) Whenever a sentence with ${tkn_playerName} can currently be used both for "you" AND for a third person subject, it should be split in 2 sentences in the translation center and the NEW sentence should be the one for "you" and use the unambiguous ${you}
1) Whenever ${tkn_playerName} in a sentence with can currently only be used as a second person subject, it should either be changed to ${you} or you could put "you" in the context if that is what is needed to avoid having to redo the translation from scratch
Don't hesitate to message me if need be.• Какой обозреватель вы используете?
Google Chrome v121
История отчёта
For the "context" in the traduction center, what would help us for French (but I'm sure other languages too) is something along the line:
- is it a command from the player to the game ( in French we will use the infinitive for that "kill" -> "tuer" )
- or is it instead a command form the game to the player (in French we will use the imperative for that "kill" -> "tuez" )
- or is it a description (this will usually translate into an indicative in French "you kill" -> "vous tuez" but an infinitive can also work)
It is usually best to split sentences than can be used in such different contexts into multiple entries in the traduction center..
------------------------------------------------
Hanging texts like for instance " ( 2 remaining)" can be very delicate and should usually be avoided because:
- the literal translation is "restant" but that is most often not the best translation. If it is instead integrated in each of the sentences that uses it, it's easier to choose the best word for the context.
- "restant" is the masc form. If we don't know the related gender, we should probably write "restant(e)" or "restant·e"
- there might be languages where putting that hanging text at the end will not be normal. And care should obviously be taken so that it still work for right to left languages
Now I understand that this has downsides to: I you have many sentences that can sometimes have that hanging part and sometimes not or sometimes a different hanging part, that can be annoying...
And this can also recoup the recommendation since the hanging part is often present or not depending on whether it is used as a command from the player to the game or as a description.
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I think it should be fine to switch sentences to use ${you}. I set it up this way initially because some of the player names (and 'you' when in the title bar) need to have a text-shadow, but I have found another way to solve that. Alternatively if that doesn't work I can change it to ${tkn_you} as a backup solution. But it will cause some retranslation / extra translations.
I cannot do anything about the context in the translation center. It's just the file name of the file where it's defined.
With the (x remaining) I see your point, but BGA actually recommends to use nested logs to limit the number of translations (though I guess with the amount of text in a game like Pax Ren I am not sure how much that matters). But I will take a look at it as this probably concerns sentences suffering from the ${you} issue as well so I might just be able to change them as a retranslation is needed anyway.
Note that some entries will have to be split like the one below as they are used both for 'you' and for third person. I don't think there are that many of them but there are some and it's a bit difficult to detect all the instances from within the game.
${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax
The entries that were used for both instances should be split automatically. I basically need to mark a string for translation and BGAs system detects if there are duplicates and only add them once. In the code this is already split so two strings '${tkn_playerName} must select a Concession to Tax' were marked for translation, while now it will be two different ones.
The (x remaining) should also be better translatable now.
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